Mar 24 2002 April 21 2002 May 19 2002 June Working Bee July 21 2002 Aug 2002 Sept 15th 2002 Oct 20th 2002 Nov 17th 2002 Dec 15th 2002
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| The husband of our hostess was away for a rather curious reason. He had been head of a company from 1969 too 1979 where he had showed a very human way of encouraging employees. So strong were the relationships that came out of that environment that even to this day, many of the old staff members are still friends. Our host was in Sydney attending a reunion dinner which still occurs after all the passage of years. That story tells us much about the possibilities to be human in work situations. |
Here are some points we covered in today's discussion.
Meeting finished with another quiet reflection time.
Reporters note. Something Gloucester SHOULD be famous for is the local soup. Three different varieties appeared for our lunch and surely no one went hungry.
Sunday May 19th
Mostly a Reflection on the value of Conversations to us personally. And some other stuff about Action.
A moment’s silence as we each contemplate our own presence and our part within the group.
Noel: Today talking abo+ut ACTION more than REFLECTION on "Community participation in re-vitalisating rural communities". Important to hold within us that this is a place of ‘listening’ rather than ‘advocating’ - still here to hear each other : this is what gives "conversations" real power. Important that we hold that listening space as we get into the ‘action’.
What followed -
Fears expressed around ‘action’ + opinions expressed around the real value of ‘Conversations’ -
Would hate to lose the ‘kernel’ of the conversations by taking action - must hang on to the ‘quality’.
Feel you introduce another layer of complexity when get into ‘action’ - completely genderless and actionless.
Love the non-judgemental part of the whole group - free to express opinions without judgement.
Love the honesty of conversations.
Everybody is valued just for being here.
Want to focus on Gloucester not being a retirement village but a place where our children can work - keeping Gloucester alive for the future.
Do hope this will grow into something that does DO something, but not lose our precious "kernel".
Feel need to keep practicalities like hospital and banks. Otherwise people won’t come and Gloucester will die like other country towns.
What we are about is ‘quality of life’. All these services will happen at a quality level when we come from a quality level.
What we create is from our thoughts so we begin with the quality of our thoughts.
Comes from the grass-roots.
It is essentially about ideals/dreaming/the ideal vision.
This group looks for ‘positive’ things, such a positive group. This is what I value about this group.
Through listening, finding that space where we can all meet.
Felt the dreaming/the vision is the important bit - the practicalities are the easy bits.
Could the practicalities be a splinter group from this group. Plus ‘helping each other out’ could also be a splinter group : (it’s actually happening this month - Elizabeth’s place, 8 Bowman Street, 65581727 : 11am)
Noel: Had an appointment with Garry Moore who holds up the Community Builders Unit for strengthening communities in the Premier’s Department. Offered a proposal to Julie Lyford yesterday to take to Council.
Step 1 is to form a local ‘action group’ (hopefully people from this group will take part) to oversee and guide the process of ‘community auditing’ to find out what is here in Gloucester. The product is a community profile as a basis for future development.
Looking for social renewal and economic development of declining rural communities : aimed at strengthening and rejuvenating.
Lunchbreak.
Noel: Need to form an ‘Action Group’ which will establish the outcomes from the community of Gloucester.
- Need to do action planning
- How let people know what is happening.
- How to get people to participate.
1) Constitute your body
2) Ask Council for funding
3) Go through the process of getting State or Commonwealth funding.
Q.: Forming the Action Group - who wants to be in?
Griselda + Linda.
More reflections followed -
Honoured and privileged to be here, sharing with everyone their thoughts.
Gloucester has such a special history - we should be looking back further, as the history of Gloucester makes it what it is today.
Interesting to get from Paul what he had to say. Now people have to put their money where their mouth is!! Would love to be on this committee but know I just can’t manage it.
Noticed the power of ‘silence’ - came through into the kitchen. Made me realise how important it is to have that collective pool of energy.
Afraid we are going to lose our "conversations". Not sure where I want to be at the moment.
Need to tell us the activities of the ‘action group’.
Feel torn because want to be part of it.
Another fear: I am afraid that we might just be trying to duplicate what has already been done - which is always motivated by "gotta" find things to be bigger and better + sucked into the old idea of what the economy is all about. Maybe we will just find a new way to duplicate the old way. So I don’t want to be sucked into what I don’t believe in.
The audit is basically finding out what sort of resources we have - then it is up to the community to decide.
On Radio National last week on ‘Life Matters’ focussed on the life of a wife of a company employee relocated to America - no opportunities for her jobwise, etc. etc. She ended up doing research on wives in other countries like herself and companies are now using her research to give better conditions and opportunities to the wives of their employees.
We have got Noel here with this fantastic system. Lets feel it is part of the dreaming that has been done here, and we are going to gently, gently make Gloucester a nice place ...
We are only looking at an audit - have lost track a bit - not asking people to change, etc. Simply doing a community profile of Gloucester.
Only need to get this job done. Then we need to create vision, etc.
I put in a tentative "yes" when Polly wasn’t here. I feel a bit bad for saying ‘yes’. But would feel worse for saying ‘no’.
Feeling agitated - normally towards the end of our conversations I’m feeling peaceful. Don’t want to lose that quality.
The power of "Conversation" for me is coming away feeling grounded and empowered and uplifted.
The ‘Action Group" is something that is born out of Conversations. So surely as a baby can grow and survive with a bit of nurturing, so can we. Need to acknowledge that the "Action Group" is separate from the Conversations Group.
I am feeling low for letting Noel down - from all our fantastic expectations. Not living up to them.
Moving out of "conversations" into action - how do we actually go about galvanising that action?
We’ve talked about it for years.
Fear of going out into the community ...
This sense of separation we have - is as much us, not just them.
Noticed change in people over the time we have met together; and some of us are finding the group personally useful even though it is not the intention of the group.
Perhaps this is the time to reach an agreement to keep this ‘action’ separate from ‘conversations’.
Agreement.
June Event 2002
Griselda was away this month so no conversation. However there was a working bee in the garden of one of the participants.
"Summary of our work day on Elizabeth's garden
yesterday. Plenty of discovery of bulbs and the sharing of knowledge of plants uncovered,
soup and bread and a tired feeling of shared work well done."
"Talking is teaching,
Listening is learning,
Education is sharing.
Experience is a seed,
and even the bitterest seed will grow.
Culture is the fruit of common experience-
a common responsibility, and
our common wealth.
If work is love made visible,
then love is everywhere you look."
Forward to 'Build your own bread oven."
by Kiko Denzer ----- Original Message -----
Sunday July 21st 2002
Commenced with a moment or two of silent reflection of our presence in this group.
The theme for the day was set by one of our number sharing her experience going to Woomera with a group who were making their statement about the incarceration of people seeking refugee status here. She commented on the diversity of the 2000 or so protestors but the unity they felt that came out of their common interest.
Interesting to face the ethical dilemma of the position of the law and the desperate plight of the refugees.
Particularly worth noting was the disparity between what she saw happening there and the media reportage. Some others agreed that whenever they have seen media reports of events in which they had some involvement there was inevitably great inaccuracies or biases that were not reflectors of what really happened.
One thing certainly not reported well was the unspeakable treatment of the camp interns including the children.
So followed a conversation on the dilemma of challenging values and beliefs.
We define ourselves more often by what we are not rather than who we really are.
By stigmatising the 'other' we stimulate our own sense of security.
Globalisation observation: Once the world was divided into 'nation states' where as now it is defined by 'markets' or segments of the market.
Noted a caution on excluding anyone. Even Mr Ruddock "peas, poos and picks his nose like anybody else. We are actually quite similar in our inner most values and desires.
What can I do?
Each little thing that I do is what I can do to make a contribution. By us being here in this forum and discussing - we know we are not alone. We give each other strength to be present for our own values.
Arguments and Discussions lead to black and white positions and polarise rather than offer investigation. What we do and seek to do is peel back the layers of understanding. The interview questions one participant came up with led her to a much deeper understanding of an otherwise recalcitrant brother.
After the usual magnificent lunch we went on to talk about the action group and the upcoming plans for a Community Audit.
What we got out of this Conversation or specifically remember:
The Verandah Group. Barrington.
Sunday September 15th 2002
A
moment’s silence as we each brought out presence into the chair and then felt
a part of the group ...
WHAT
IS ‘SELF’?
/ WHO AM I?
Griselda
read the thoughts of Trish and Stella who were unable to attend
*
The new little Oxford dictionary describes ‘self’ as -
Ø
person or thing’s own individuality or essence;
Ø
person or thing as object of reflexive action;
Ø
one’s own interest or pleasure - concentration on these.
Ø
selfish, selfless, self-conscious, self-sacrifice, self-righteous, self-satisfied,
self-interest, self-preservation, self-respect, self-indulgent, self-esteem -
some of the ‘self’ descriptions.
But,
what is ‘self’? Mind?
Body? Soul?
Does
the power of the mind dictate how the body reacts, feels, does, etc.
Pure in mind - pure in spirit - pure of heart!
So,
is ‘self’ selfish, self-satisfaction, self-indulgent, etc.
Is high self-esteem the ability to give and receive love, to appreciate
oneself and all others, to respect oneself and everyone as well;
and also to have self-interest, self-preservation, etc etc etc!!!!!?????
*
I feel my deepest self is a place of light energy.
No substance. Just
awareness. I believe this light
energy/awareness/consciousness decides to inhabit earthly matter - a body - for
the purpose of joy and in order to ADD TO WHAT IS, through experiences.
I suspect that it is true that the light energy that I am is the same
basic ingredient of all life forms and so in some way I am connected to All That
is. However I haven’t had a
personal experience of that sensation of connection so still experience myself
as separate. If this were taken to
the enth degree however, it would mean that Self is All and All is Self.
I don’t know this to be true, I just wonder about it.
Steiner’s philosophy - Anthrosophy - separates the human into 4 bodies. The physical body; the
etheric body or life force which sustains the physical body and keeps it alive;
the astral body which is the soul or feeling life and enlivens the
physical body and allows it to get up in the morning and have experiences;
and finally the spirit or ego as he called it, the connection to the
spiritual worlds, and here for a purpose. I
have experienced these distinctions on occasion.
From this I guess one would say the Self is complex and made of many
facets, although the essential Self is still the spirit.
My feeling when I reach for an experience of my Spirit is just this
sensation of light energy. Hence my
first statement.
The
group now responding to their thoughts -
*
Need to define your own terms, e.g. ‘ego’ and ‘spirit’ is the
same for Steiner, but not for me. I
see:
-
“Father” - as an infinite source of spirit within everything.
-
“Son” - as
spirit within self
-
“Holy Spirit” - as the hot line between the two.
*
Eastern religions believe there is no such thing as “self’. Perhaps you could look at ‘self’ as “expressions of
self” - what senses do we sense ‘self’ with?
*
Difficult to separate ‘self’ from ‘ego’.
*
As soon as start talking about infinity ... trying then to make it
finite.
*
What do you do with ‘self’ when you define it?
*
I had a little look once - it was joy and light infinitely dynamic. It was this consciousness that encompasses everything.
This little “i” is part of the big
that is ‘self’.
*
Can’t go past the onion, peeling off the layers.
-
First, have to peel off the emotions - everything from joy to grief to anger to
despair to the more pleasurable emotions. So,
you do choose your emotions, so are they for real?
They are really all just pure illusion.
- Next, have to peel off ‘attachment’ and ‘aversion’ - see how these dominate the ‘self’ because again nothing lasts. There are 3 aspects of Buddhism:
1) nothing is permanent
2) unsatisfactoriness
3) no ‘self’ there at
all..
When
you have disengaged these, really there is nothing there - just a flood of
‘peace’ beyond emotions. So,
there is a result from fully realising that there is no ‘self’.
-
However, back comes the onion - “I want to have it!
I want to own it!”
*
Maybe the question is: ‘who
is the self?’, not ‘what is ‘self’?
*
Are ‘self’ and ‘soul’ the same thing?
To me ‘soul’ is the personal imprint that you bring into the world -
and it contains infinite possibility and imagination (feel very scared of it -
want to cover it up with aspects like “I’m not good enough”, which stops
you searching for what you really are.
*
There is a level at which I know ‘I am God’ - but I don’t have any
direct conscious use of that because I don’t get that sense of connection.
I like to think of a mud pool - every blob that comes up is a life and
then it goes back into the infinite. Does
it retain its identity when it goes back into the infinite?
If ‘love’ is the essence, then that is what I have to hold in my
consciousness, which is an endless challenge being human.
If I get stuck in my negative emotions, then I feel like I am the only
speck in the consciousness. But
when I am here, feeling connected to all people ...
I aim to give and receive that love because from a selfish point of view
that is when I feel good or peaceful.
*
This subject has been burbling around in my head all week - I decided not
to look up books, but to go within. I
like it when I am not so aware of myself, where I can put myself totally in
somebody else’s shoes, where I can understand a perspective that is not my
own. If we could do this in the
world a lot more, then we could have more peace and harmony in the world.
So, how do I get to this point? I
kept thinking about children and the way we bring them up.
I wasn’t brought up not to fear the world, and I wasn’t brought up to
really feel at home in nature - feel if people were brought up in a society
where they are connected to everything, then they would not be so selfish.
*
I will find out when I die whether the ways of the Buddhists, Christians,
Hindus, etc. are true - feel they have all been created to satisfy people’s
journeys.
*
A belief is more or less a model to work from.
I find the Buddhist teachings useful in the conduct of my life.
Whatever the different teaching, it is a model for conducting our lives -
so it doesn’t matter what I believe. And
I don’t think ‘your’ way is the only way, because otherwise we feel
righteous and we fight!
So, ‘who am I’ can only come from inside.
I use a ‘whirlpool in a
river’
- everything is just energy, like water in the river, and this whirlpool shows
up, and it has intelligence, and it’s flowing through us all.
So in the same way it’s the same with us:
I am part of you, and part of this spider, etc. etc.
*
Why do you need to ask yourself: ‘who
you are?’
*
.The unreflective life is no life at all.
The more aware I can become, the more loving I can experience. Why do I reflect? It
gives me a deeper feeling of compassion/love - and I am much more less likely to
do damage.....!
*
Could you be as compassionate without this as a conviction.....?
*
Need to recognise the “seeds” of ‘good’ and ‘bad’ within all
of us.
*
I have been threatened by Christian people in all my life - with fire and
brimstone - so I say that if I don’t believe it, the fire and brimstone, then
it won’t get me! I don’t
believe in an after-life, or heaven, or hell;
therefore, it doesn’t exist for me.
*
Belief is only a useful guide for your life - so, as long as it guides
your lives, and doesn’t bother me...
*
- based on ‘mystical notions’?//
We are not in agreement by what we mean on “soul”.
You can be compassionate, believe in world peace, e.g., without actually
asking yourself “who you are?” I
might ask myself: “where am I?”
I like to know “where I am”, e.g. where I am going/life’s journey,
in terms of relationships, with my friends...
I know of Angela Davis, a black academic - she is a Professor of
Consciousness - what is it? how
does it relate to people’s actions in society?
how do people think of racism and peace in terms of consciousness???
I am a bit frightened of slipping into mysticism - there is no consistent
way of interpreting it, because people can make up their own rules that are not
necessarily related to the world we live in...
*
I had a dream a long time ago - where I saw these little tiny “i am’s”
making up a bigger “I AM’s”.
Another dream - that was hell. I
came to the realisation that the first thing that you have to do is forgive
yourself before you forgive anyone else.
The worst possible thing that anybody is doing - that is also within me!!
I think we all have major things to do;
and we are all on different levels.
I have got to learn to open up my heart, and I know that this is what I
have to do.
*
I see a difference between the ‘ego’ and the ‘self’ - it is the
‘ego’ that we feed with chocolates and coffee!
Busyness = don’t want to stop and have a look...
My challenge is to be willing to have a go, to stand up and be counted
despite the fear that I might be criticized or not be understood...
*
Glimpsing something bigger ... and choosing chocolate - I have lived a
lot in the chocolate... But
you can’t choose the bigger one until you are ready to choose it! For example, I wish now I could have brought up my child
differently, but at the time that is all I could know to do...
*
An old Japanese saying: “poppy
leaves fall quietly, softly and gently when they are ready.
This is so powerful because when they are ready, you cannot stop them.
When you are ready, you have a wider spectrum of choices.
*
Collective consciousness can become collective action ...
*
That is why people go into caves to work on everyone’s consciousness...
LUNCH
BREAK
*
When I’m feeling connected to nature or people, feel a sense of
belonging, that I’m part of something bigger than ‘self’.
But, when feel fear, that’s when sense of ‘self’ comes in
and it feels small and alone. So,
this month, with Bowen Therapy, decided to find and clear my very first trauma
of fear - found in at my birth: was a small issue of my dad’s
disappointment that I wasn’t a boy! But
that rejection felt huge! I
didn’t want to be here. I was
trying to go back from where I came. I
felt unloved and alone - had lost my connection to the Source of love and light. SO, from there on, I reacted to life from this tunnel of fear
of not belonging by:
1) trying to prove
I’m not wrong;
2) trying to please others
3) feeling small and ‘not
good enough’.
This
realization came with a new awareness that I AM part of God, in this physical
body. And, as everything else is a part of God, then I’m part of everything
else. So:
1) got a Belonging feeling, without
trying
2) feeling of Beingness, like I’m enjoying being ME, in this physical
body.
So,
to summarise:
1)
My ‘self’ has been attached to fears and anxieties and guilts - and
reacted to life from this tunnel of fear, feeling small and alone.
2)
‘Self’ now feels it is merging with the whole, part of the whole -
open to be a creator of its life.
*
Is the ‘self’ the something that is the core of you that has always
been there; or is it the sum of all
the experiences you have had in your life?
The latter is what I believe - who I am at this present point in time.
*
If I am not being yourself, who am I being?
*
I am a bloop in the mud hole of life...
*
Some bloops go up higher than others ...
*
Looking for things that we sense ‘self’ through, to get to know/to
understand this illusionary ‘self’.
I feel ‘self’ is a constructive illusion but I believe there is
something greater - beyond; and do
you go through that ‘self’ to access that ‘self’?
Are the things that you do an expression of that ideal ‘self’?
When the child starts to become self-aware of the states you are not
aware of ‘self’ - and how sublime and liberating that feeling is.
You don’t seem to have any control of it happening.
All of a sudden you feel that you have come back to that ‘self’ with
a feeling of longing to be freed from the ‘self’.
*
When you are playing something sublime, is your ‘self’ there?
*
I thought how music can take you to a much more sublime level; and the feeling of coming back is a disappointment.
When it really happens, it feels as if I am in touch with the
‘composer’s self’.
*
The music is better than it can ever be played, so the music is eternal -
you know you could never get if perfect...
*
Because music is not a language, it is freer in a way to be interpreted
by every single listener...
*
The illusionary ‘self’ that you talk about - is it the ‘ego
self’?
*
I think it is more than ego - cultural/society/all sorts of things...
*
I call it “the one that knows”.
There can never be a breakthrough without going through conflict, chaos,
confusion. So, when you are
confused, feel blessed on the way to clarity...
The Verandah Group. Barrington.
Sunday Oct 20th 2002
A
moment’s silence as we each brought out presence into the chair and then felt
a part of the group ...
As you can see, we go for some pretty serious stuff around here. However, although we've been a trifle introspective recently, we do still manage to have a great deal of fun amongst it all.
Early comments to start the ball rolling were:
SE perhaps starts prebirth. That's where we adopt our attitude.
SE is important at the other end of our lives too Especially when people become less independent.
Start with love and respect for myself and others. That gives me good energy.
Much emphasis is on the physical but that's not as important as inner spirit.
Conversations gives nourishment to SE. Some cultures support it.
If only I knew deep inside how important and valuable I really am.
SE is a sometimes thing. Constant reminder. More now I'm older.
SE is important vs ego. SE gets battered. Ego bolsters itself.
SE extent of my interactions with others. (Other esteem)
Someone feels the opposite. SE is strengthened by being on my own.
Aware of value of others brings awareness of value of me.
SE variable. Need time to be quiet within. Confidence within.
Learn to live self
Would love to believe SE is able to be developed. If it is developed prebirth, perhaps we're up a creek.
Drawn to chakra - sense of that feeling inside of me. Not fear guilt etc.
To what extent is Parenting and other parts of development affecting SE. Seems we're not encouraged to develop a healthy SE. Note the effects of bullying in the workplace.
SE
shows up when we learn how to challenge authority and learn how to cope with it.
Self esteem vs 'other' esteem. Better if we don't put judgements on
things.
We don't tend to appreciate enough. (Each other)
We put a lot of emphasis on outcomes as measurable success without us
necessarily having an experience of being success.
Lengthy discourse on the effect of the birth experience.
To the question, "What brought the sunshine out for you in your life?"
Learning to live with another (happy) culture
Achieving a difficult physical task (Climbing a mountain)
Creating a realised intention (Life's partner)
The day I learned to read
I can let one little negative ruin the whole day
Watch out for the trap of thinking that our rational mind can solve it all for us.
Giving acknowledgment. Both giving and receiving.
However noted that brick bats can bring humility.
Question, how can you transcend your 'self' that you haven't claimed. Maybe we have to go into the darkness first?
Finished the day with a sharing of our positive aspects.
To be continued.
The next date to watch and plan for is:
Sunday Nov 17th, 11.00a.m. on the Verandah. Call Griselda or Polly on 6558 7555
for directions
The Verandah Group. Barrington.
Sunday Nov 17th, 11.00a.m.
Sorry. Notes not available.
The Verandah Group. Barrington.
Sunday Dec 15th, 11.00a.m
An especially enjoyable day where participants seemed to contribute right from their hearts. The pace was set by one who offered her thoughts on paper. Here is what she wrote.
"To All at Conversations on the Verandah.
What a lovely year of conversations it has been. What a treasure the third Sunday of the month is in my life. It's a precious gift, a pure delight, a safe place. Thank you all so very much for your willingness to listen, your quiet attention. Thank you for your willingness to be open, your honest insights. Thank you for your warmth and friendship which so enriches my life. Thank you especially to Griselda who opens her heart and home so generously so that conversations can be possible, who nourishes us with her depth of wisdom and delicious meals and who welcomes us so genuinely.
I hope this gift can be shared by all, to be passed around and perhaps add to the broadening expansive nature of our experience together.
With much love always
Tricia."
Well there now. Haven't I been telling you what a great group this is and how wonderful the people are?
Most of the rest of the time we spent working on our goal maps, guided by Griselda. A great ending for the year.